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	<title>Comments on: Palin and the Case of the Dropping Polls</title>
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	<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2008/09/29/palin-and-the-case-of-the-dropping-polls/</link>
	<description>Wesley R. Elsberry&#039;s personal weblog, talking about falconry, science, antievolution, computation, and the broken body he lives in.</description>
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		<title>By: Austringer</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2008/09/29/palin-and-the-case-of-the-dropping-polls/comment-page-1/#comment-244788</link>
		<dc:creator>Austringer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 18:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=977#comment-244788</guid>
		<description>I guess we will see. I&#039;m expecting Biden to make rhetorical mincemeat of Palin. What has been discussed elsewhere is how expectations of Palin are &lt;i&gt;so low&lt;/i&gt; going into the debate that unless she does something &lt;i&gt;unexpectedly stupid&lt;/i&gt; onstage, she might make a public perception gain simply by not being as bad as what her open-mic opportunities so far portend. Not that Palin&#039;s supporters should be comforted by such relativism, but that&#039;s politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess we will see. I&#8217;m expecting Biden to make rhetorical mincemeat of Palin. What has been discussed elsewhere is how expectations of Palin are <i>so low</i> going into the debate that unless she does something <i>unexpectedly stupid</i> onstage, she might make a public perception gain simply by not being as bad as what her open-mic opportunities so far portend. Not that Palin&#8217;s supporters should be comforted by such relativism, but that&#8217;s politics.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2008/09/29/palin-and-the-case-of-the-dropping-polls/comment-page-1/#comment-244786</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 18:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=977#comment-244786</guid>
		<description>The McCain camp ought to let Gov. Palin be herself, it&#039;s her strong point, she makes a better connection with the American people that way. 

It&#039;s the reason why the number have dropped a bit. In the upcoming debate there shouldn&#039;t be a concern about her foreign affairs experience, how many governors of states have this experience? McCain&#039;s the expert in this matter, and he&#039;s the one running for President.

If she allowed to be herself and hammer Joe Biden failed voting record on foreign policy like how he wants to intervene in civil wars and turns his back in on an African tribe in 1994 which was getting killed by another tribe by the tens of thousands. 

If she allowed to be herself the numbers will slightly rise again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The McCain camp ought to let Gov. Palin be herself, it&#8217;s her strong point, she makes a better connection with the American people that way. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s the reason why the number have dropped a bit. In the upcoming debate there shouldn&#8217;t be a concern about her foreign affairs experience, how many governors of states have this experience? McCain&#8217;s the expert in this matter, and he&#8217;s the one running for President.</p>
<p>If she allowed to be herself and hammer Joe Biden failed voting record on foreign policy like how he wants to intervene in civil wars and turns his back in on an African tribe in 1994 which was getting killed by another tribe by the tens of thousands. </p>
<p>If she allowed to be herself the numbers will slightly rise again.</p>
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		<title>By: Austringer</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2008/09/29/palin-and-the-case-of-the-dropping-polls/comment-page-1/#comment-244174</link>
		<dc:creator>Austringer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=977#comment-244174</guid>
		<description>Ooops. I hate it when I mess up the arithmetic. At least the proportionality part holds up to scrutiny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooops. I hate it when I mess up the arithmetic. At least the proportionality part holds up to scrutiny.</p>
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		<title>By: teddy d</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2008/09/29/palin-and-the-case-of-the-dropping-polls/comment-page-1/#comment-244154</link>
		<dc:creator>teddy d</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=977#comment-244154</guid>
		<description>THOUGH I AM NOT THAT INFORMED AS WELL AS THE POLITICAL PEOPLE ARE, I DO HAVE SOMETHING THAT THEY DON&#039;T HAVE , COMMON SENSE. SARAH PALIN HAS LITTLE OR AT BEST THE SAME AS JOHN MCCAIN AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. I CAN SEE RUSSIA FROM MY HOUSE, I LIVE IN ARKANSAS,MCCAIN STILL IN THE THE WAR,SO WAS I, 173RD.ABN BRG. 1963-66 VIET NAM VET</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THOUGH I AM NOT THAT INFORMED AS WELL AS THE POLITICAL PEOPLE ARE, I DO HAVE SOMETHING THAT THEY DON&#8217;T HAVE , COMMON SENSE. SARAH PALIN HAS LITTLE OR AT BEST THE SAME AS JOHN MCCAIN AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. I CAN SEE RUSSIA FROM MY HOUSE, I LIVE IN ARKANSAS,MCCAIN STILL IN THE THE WAR,SO WAS I, 173RD.ABN BRG. 1963-66 VIET NAM VET</p>
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		<title>By: dogdidit</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2008/09/29/palin-and-the-case-of-the-dropping-polls/comment-page-1/#comment-244147</link>
		<dc:creator>dogdidit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=977#comment-244147</guid>
		<description>My first reply sounds like I am challenging your post -- anything but! I meant it when I said &#039;Fun with numbers&#039;. My apologies if the tenor of my post suggested otherwise.

As to the &#039;don&#039;t know&#039; votes: the tallies of &#039;approve&#039; and &#039;disapprove&#039; in the two polls add to 87% and 88%, respectively. That leaves room for 10% to move between polls from approval to neutrality, or from neutrality to disapproval, assuming the third choice was indeed &#039;don&#039;t know&#039; or something similarly neutral.

I shall chase down a copy of &#039;How to Lie With Statistics&#039; -- thanks for the tip!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first reply sounds like I am challenging your post &#8212; anything but! I meant it when I said &#8216;Fun with numbers&#8217;. My apologies if the tenor of my post suggested otherwise.</p>
<p>As to the &#8216;don&#8217;t know&#8217; votes: the tallies of &#8216;approve&#8217; and &#8216;disapprove&#8217; in the two polls add to 87% and 88%, respectively. That leaves room for 10% to move between polls from approval to neutrality, or from neutrality to disapproval, assuming the third choice was indeed &#8216;don&#8217;t know&#8217; or something similarly neutral.</p>
<p>I shall chase down a copy of &#8216;How to Lie With Statistics&#8217; &#8212; thanks for the tip!</p>
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		<title>By: Austringer</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2008/09/29/palin-and-the-case-of-the-dropping-polls/comment-page-1/#comment-244123</link>
		<dc:creator>Austringer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=977#comment-244123</guid>
		<description>Technically, I said that the &lt;i&gt;scale&lt;/i&gt; was at issue. The scale for percentage points in a poll is 0% to 100%. The scale for net point changes is 0 points to 200 points. That Palin&#039;s ratings could only change a fraction of that total scale doesn&#039;t change what the scale is. Please read &quot;How to Lie with Statistics&quot;; this topic is a whole section in there.

Yes, there are issues to do with how sampling is performed and what may be inferred about the population, but let&#039;s assume that the 3-4% slop typically claimed for polls is pretty much OK. And, no, if that is the case, Palin&#039;s numbers could not shift by that 10% and have it go into the &quot;don&#039;t know&quot; bin. &quot;Don&#039;t know&quot; in the second poll was a mere 2% of respondents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Technically, I said that the <i>scale</i> was at issue. The scale for percentage points in a poll is 0% to 100%. The scale for net point changes is 0 points to 200 points. That Palin&#8217;s ratings could only change a fraction of that total scale doesn&#8217;t change what the scale is. Please read &#8220;How to Lie with Statistics&#8221;; this topic is a whole section in there.</p>
<p>Yes, there are issues to do with how sampling is performed and what may be inferred about the population, but let&#8217;s assume that the 3-4% slop typically claimed for polls is pretty much OK. And, no, if that is the case, Palin&#8217;s numbers could not shift by that 10% and have it go into the &#8220;don&#8217;t know&#8221; bin. &#8220;Don&#8217;t know&#8221; in the second poll was a mere 2% of respondents.</p>
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		<title>By: dogdidit</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2008/09/29/palin-and-the-case-of-the-dropping-polls/comment-page-1/#comment-244074</link>
		<dc:creator>dogdidit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=977#comment-244074</guid>
		<description>Technically, if she started with a 52% approval and a 35% disapproval rating, the largest possible change in points is a loss of 117, not 200.

And it is not established that any former approvers of her now disapprove. Are the poll respondents the same? Even if they are, the 42% that approve her today were not necessarily among the 52% that approved of her previously (though it does seem likely). Also, the 10% that changed their position from approval could have sqitched to &#039;no comment&#039; (or whatever the null postion was) rather than disapproval.

Fun with numbers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Technically, if she started with a 52% approval and a 35% disapproval rating, the largest possible change in points is a loss of 117, not 200.</p>
<p>And it is not established that any former approvers of her now disapprove. Are the poll respondents the same? Even if they are, the 42% that approve her today were not necessarily among the 52% that approved of her previously (though it does seem likely). Also, the 10% that changed their position from approval could have sqitched to &#8216;no comment&#8217; (or whatever the null postion was) rather than disapproval.</p>
<p>Fun with numbers.</p>
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		<title>By: ptet</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2008/09/29/palin-and-the-case-of-the-dropping-polls/comment-page-1/#comment-244055</link>
		<dc:creator>ptet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:17:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=977#comment-244055</guid>
		<description>A very nice catch on the stats... 

Palin is still popular tho, with a huge crowd who think she just needs to be &quot;let off the leash&quot;.

That sounds like a great idea to me ;&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very nice catch on the stats&#8230; </p>
<p>Palin is still popular tho, with a huge crowd who think she just needs to be &#8220;let off the leash&#8221;.</p>
<p>That sounds like a great idea to me ;&gt;</p>
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