Comments on: Beckwith Reviews Numbers

By: Austringer

Austringer — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:28:10 +0000

Beckwith’s argument about possibly mistaking a philosophical point for a theological one could make sense in another context, but when the context is “intelligent design” creationism advocacy, one would have to overlook or set aside loads of documentation saying that, yes, indeed, IDC advocates are making their arguments for the purpose of advancing a narrow sectarian viewpoint. Beckwith’s point, if that is indeed it, is better known as straining at gnats and swallowing camels.

About the last point, this is already well-known. One finds that in “establishment clause” analysis, judges are already looking for secular purposes for the actions in question, and if they find them, then they rule that there is no establishment clause violation. The creation of a homeless shelter, even if explicitly pitched as being just what two-seed-in-the-faith-predestinarian-Bible-Baptist doctrine demanded, would pass muster as advancing the secular purpose of aiding the common weal, *if* there isn’t the taint of proselytizing TSitFPBB doctrine along with the meals and bed space. IDC fails in part because there is no secular purpose in teaching students old, tired, bogus, religious antievolution arguments.

By: Joshua Zelinsky

Joshua Zelinsky — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:47:45 +0000

If I follow what Beckwith is saying in the quoted paragraph he is saying that since Protestants are often sola scriptura, people who grow up in a Protestant culture such as the United States are more likely to assume that a claim in an area other than theology that has theological relevance stems from theological considerations rather than from the area it started in. For example, one might assume that some philosophical argument about the nature of sin is motivated solely by some Biblical interpretation that one wants to defend.

If I’m following Beckwith correctly here then he may have a somewhat valid point: one could have a scientist who believed in God, and motivated by that belief tried to find evidence for God’s existence. That scientist could do good science even aside from their underlying motivation. That said, there may also be a projection issue here because creationists are fond claiming that biologists and other scientists are motivated by atheism or some other sinister agenda.

Finally, one last point: while Beckwith’s claim that religious motivation shouldn’t be relevant at all, there are clearly situations where even if there is a strong religious motivation we would likely not see the action as unconstitutional. If for example, a city counsel voted to open a new homeless shelter funded by the city and the counsel decided to do so explicitly due to belief in a religious obligation to care for the poor, I doubt almost anyone would call that a violation of the establishment clause.

By: Austringer

Austringer — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:08:25 +0000

Unfortunately, as soon as one admits that the perspective that values empirical evidence as an indicator of the value of a concept gets things done more efficiently than most other “perspectives”, one does not have the postmodernist luxury of simply deferring any judgment on issues that *can* be decided on the basis of evidence.

Science is a meritocracy.

By: Jane

Jane — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 10:40:06 +0000

I strongly feel that the whole academic discussion is missing the point, all theories have nicely put arguments but in fact each perceives an aspect of reality and insists that he got it right, if one thinks in levels then there is no contradiction and they are all correct from their unique perspective

By: Unsympathetic reader

Unsympathetic reader — Sat, 31 May 2008 21:30:26 +0000

I suspect Beckwith thinks highly of natural theology. I can sympathize with that attempt but when he speaks of the ‘natural order’ for human relationships and marriages, I think he’s projecting revealed ‘truth’ on nature rather than the other way around.

I’ve noticed that Beckwith also advocates not excluding religious opinions from secular discussions. The idea is that there is no ‘privileged’ position with respect to policies regarding moral opinions. That’s not unreasonable, but I agree with you, Wesley, that the Lemon test is perfectly acceptable in cases such as ID/creationism *and* the way in which proponents have tried to force it into schools. So, propositions based on mixed arguments = OK — Those with extensively (or exclusively) religious justifications = no go.

By: Austringer

Austringer — Sat, 31 May 2008 14:06:42 +0000

I should note that the relentless miscomprehension of scientific research that now occupies so much of the output of antievolution advocates is simply the enlargement of the program begun by the then explicitly religious antievolutionists like William Jennings Bryan and George MacReady Price. The misuse and abuse of science may not wear its religiosity on its face, but any competent examiner will determine that its purpose remains the very same as under previous labelings of the religious antievolution movement.