Comments on: Frank Hagan’s Point http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2008/03/23/frank-hagans-point/ Wesley R. Elsberry's personal weblog, talking about falconry, science, antievolution, computation, and the broken body he lives in. Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:25:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Austringer http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2008/03/23/frank-hagans-point/comment-page-1/#comment-181221 Austringer Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:09:50 +0000 http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2008/03/23/frank-hagans-point/#comment-181221 I tend to think of the quote mine as the extension into the secular domain of the behavior known as "proof-texting". If one can find some fragment of scripture to support an argument, that often passes for a completely sufficient defense of the argument in certain religious circles. It is very confusing for someone used to that style of argumentation to try to interact with those trained in the sciences, who generally, even if they are themselves Christian, simply don't see quotations from papers and books as dispositive of much of anything, and certainly not if what is quoted is supposed to be accepted merely on the authority of whatever source is given. I tend to think of the quote mine as the extension into the secular domain of the behavior known as “proof-texting”. If one can find some fragment of scripture to support an argument, that often passes for a completely sufficient defense of the argument in certain religious circles. It is very confusing for someone used to that style of argumentation to try to interact with those trained in the sciences, who generally, even if they are themselves Christian, simply don’t see quotations from papers and books as dispositive of much of anything, and certainly not if what is quoted is supposed to be accepted merely on the authority of whatever source is given.

]]> By: NP http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2008/03/23/frank-hagans-point/comment-page-1/#comment-181197 NP Wed, 26 Mar 2008 04:24:48 +0000 http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2008/03/23/frank-hagans-point/#comment-181197 I think the frequent use of the quote-mine by intelligent design and creationism advocates is due to the lack of any primary research supporting their position. Thus, the quote-mine remains one of the few polemical weapons in the creationist arsenal. I think the frequent use of the quote-mine by intelligent design and creationism advocates is due to the lack of any primary research supporting their position. Thus, the quote-mine remains one of the few polemical weapons in the creationist arsenal.

]]> By: Scott Hatfield, OM http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2008/03/23/frank-hagans-point/comment-page-1/#comment-181118 Scott Hatfield, OM Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:03:02 +0000 http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2008/03/23/frank-hagans-point/#comment-181118 Hear, hear! I want to thank you, Dr. Elsberry, for this post. As a Christian and an enthusiastic Darwinian, it's refreshing to hear a point of view to which I am in total sympathy, as I was with this post. And, Mr. Hagan, thank you for your intellectual integrity. Ethical people exist on both sides of the evo/creo wars, but our ability to dialog with each other is compromised when allow ourselves to be manipulated by unethical people who we take to be on our 'side'. This is why creationism is something of a cottage industry within Christianity, because it serves the interests of a minority to promote distrust and hostility toward a secular enterprise. But there are many of us who are believers within that enterprise, and we are hard-pressed when our fellow Christians fail to do what you have done, which is to test the fruits, by which we shall know them. So I commend you strongly for following the evidence, no matter where it led. Peace...SH Hear, hear!

I want to thank you, Dr. Elsberry, for this post. As a Christian and an enthusiastic Darwinian, it’s refreshing to hear a point of view to which I am in total sympathy, as I was with this post.

And, Mr. Hagan, thank you for your intellectual integrity. Ethical people exist on both sides of the evo/creo wars, but our ability to dialog with each other is compromised when allow ourselves to be manipulated by unethical people who we take to be on our ‘side’. This is why creationism is something of a cottage industry within Christianity, because it serves the interests of a minority to promote distrust and hostility toward a secular enterprise. But there are many of us who are believers within that enterprise, and we are hard-pressed when our fellow Christians fail to do what you have done, which is to test the fruits, by which we shall know them. So I commend you strongly for following the evidence, no matter where it led.

Peace…SH

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