Comments on: Florida: Luskin Lets Cat Out of Bag

By: James McGrath

James McGrath — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 19:14:47 +0000

I posted something on my blog today that you may find interesting, about honest and ID. Mainstream scientists, even if they turned out to be wrong about evolution (which is extremely unlikely), would have nothing to be ashamed of for following the evidence where it leads and drawing the best conclusions possible based on the evidence currently available. The cdesign proponentsists, on the other hand, have reason to be ashamed even if they turned out to be right, since even were that (as is again extremely improbable) to happen, it would be by accident, since they engage in sleight of hand and obfuscation.

http://exploringourmatrix.blogspot.com/2008/03/its-not-whether-you-win-or-lose.html

By: Kagehi

Kagehi — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:18:51 +0000

Its always the strategy of these kinds of people to sacrifice those that can’t turn around and sue them for being stupid enough to follow the party line, while they sit at the top and spin that its all for the good of the people. You see it with anti-abortion types, who don’t give a crap about any child once born, especially if the child was born with some disease or condition that will leave the parents (and who ever inherits) in debt until their grandkids are 90. You see it in pretty much every case of businesses run by them, where kissing the ass of the customer is priority number one, but, since they can’t make children work in the factories any more, they are damn sure going to make sure the people working for them are starving on a wage that couldn’t feed the child. And so on. Their entire world view seems to be based on confirmation bias. The thousands of people that fail to succeed, don’t matter, because a) its somehow not their fault, since they are doing well, and anyone that treated the world as they do should to, and b) those people have dropped from the radar, so all of them could be buried in pine boxes some place and the people that put them there wouldn’t have the slightest fracking clue that even one of them died, never mind all of them.

You honestly expect people that are that disconnected from the consequences of their own actions to act any different when its some school teacher’s job on the line, so long as they can have the **appearance** that they are winning something? Where have you been, under a rock?

By: me

me — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:30:27 +0000

Good PR campaign?

I dunno ’bout that.

It sounds more to me like what the legislation does at its core is to promote professional suicide on the part of the science teachers who fall into this trap. And they’ll likely be replaced by science teachers who will stick to teaching real science and totally avoid IDC, rather than risk the same fate.

Its almost as if the DI’s strategy is to sacrifice their soldiers in the field, their covert science teacher operatives. Maybe the real objective is generate some martyrs, persecuted christians, hoping to whip up an anti-academic frenzy among their rank and file.

If so, it would be a hoot if this was all somehow inspired by Expelled, or if Expelled was somehow part of a larger campaign of this sort of lunacy.

Expelled as a centerpiece of some delusional PR campaign?

By: Phil

Phil — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:18:10 +0000

As a resident of the greater Seattle area, can I vote the Discovery Institute out of the state? It drive’s me nuts when it’s always referred to as the “Seattle-based” DI, or the DI of Seattle, etc. because I’ve only met a few people in my years of teaching who have questioned evolution during our coursework. I know lots of woo can be found around here, but the DI does not speak for this great city. Maybe we can package them with the Sonics when the team leaves for Oklahoma City. If the Sonics have to go, take something with them and help out the city they’re abandoning.

By: Bad

Bad — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:45:44 +0000

“Ironically, the only reason Florida Darwinists would have to fear that this bill might protect intelligent design somewhere down the road is if they already have concluded they cannot win the debate over whether ID is science.”

You have to admit, this is a pretty good PR campaign they are running here.

Of course, you also have to admit that running a PR campaign is still about as far removed from doing any actual science as you can get.

By: Amadán

Amadán — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:20:39 +0000

“…one has to wait for a teacher to make an establishment clause violation by teaching religiously-motivated antievolution”

And let’s not forget, it’ll be the teacher’s job on the line, and the DI will be nowhere to be seen when the courts start flinging thunderbolts.

Or maybe someone in the DI could correct me on that, and give a formal undertaking to stand up for those who follow their party line? Perhaps a few of their Fellows might even agree to take the stand in support of their position?

It’s OK guys, I’m only kidding.

By: Austringer

Austringer — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:51:21 +0000

Yes, West confirms exactly what my analysis above said. The only reason the DI doesn’t want to “mandate” IDC is to make it so that one has to wait for a teacher to make an establishment clause violation by teaching religiously-motivated antievolution.

I think that deserves another post.

By: John Pieret

John Pieret — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:35:29 +0000

Now John West is out saying that Luskin’s wrods were misrepresented. He also admits that ID is not yet science:

“If and when ID supporters are able to win the debate over whether ID science, then by definition any scientific information about it that pertains to biological or chemical evolution would be protected—just like any other scientific information relevant to those topics.”

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2008/03/florida_darwinists_cant_get_st.html

Of course, he also shows what the strategy is:

“So who would decide what is scientific under the bill? … [S]cience teachers themselves in consultation with their science curriculum staff and their school boards. And if they happen to promote something that isn’t science, we can be sure that groups like the ACLU will be ready to police their activities—just like they do now.”

In other words, go chase after individual teachers.

By: S. Scott

S. Scott — Fri, 14 Mar 2008 03:42:22 +0000

Marc Caputo really DID do an excellant job !
I spoke with him on the phone approx. 1 month ago (before he did his first story on this subject) and at that time, he had zero knowledge about this conflict!
Kudos to Marc :-)

By: dave

dave — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 22:27:17 +0000

Just so. It certainly looks dodgy already, with the merry filmgoers having to take a vow not to talk to each other in the cinema… http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080311/NEWS0120/80311045/1075

It appears that only a few republicans went, http://www.tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080313/CAPITOLNEWS/803130323/1067/RSS15 more info would be welcome.