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	<title>Comments on: Behe the Expert Again</title>
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	<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/</link>
	<description>Wesley R. Elsberry&#039;s personal weblog, talking about falconry, science, antievolution, computation, and the broken body he lives in.</description>
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		<title>By: Dave S.</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/comment-page-2/#comment-132688</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/#comment-132688</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll take that as confirmation. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll take that as confirmation. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Tina</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/comment-page-2/#comment-132108</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2007 13:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/#comment-132108</guid>
		<description>Quack quack!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quack quack!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave S.</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/comment-page-2/#comment-131772</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/#comment-131772</guid>
		<description>Tina - 

You&#039;re using ID arguments like the old junk DNA canard. You&#039;re using your own private &#039;definitions&#039; and connotations of evolution, just like the IDers do. You think Behe&#039;s ideas are scientifically tenable, ideas which form an important component of the ID movement. 

Sorry, but if it&#039;s quacking like a duck, I think we can reasonably assume its a duck until demonstrated otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tina &#8211; </p>
<p>You&#8217;re using ID arguments like the old junk DNA canard. You&#8217;re using your own private &#8216;definitions&#8217; and connotations of evolution, just like the IDers do. You think Behe&#8217;s ideas are scientifically tenable, ideas which form an important component of the ID movement. </p>
<p>Sorry, but if it&#8217;s quacking like a duck, I think we can reasonably assume its a duck until demonstrated otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Tina</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/comment-page-2/#comment-131593</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/#comment-131593</guid>
		<description>I never said I supported arguments of ID - never! Will be back soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never said I supported arguments of ID &#8211; never! Will be back soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave S.</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/comment-page-2/#comment-131484</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/#comment-131484</guid>
		<description>Exactly Wes. When you actually try to use the ID arguments re. &#039;junk&#039; DNA on real organisms, you very quickly run into problems like these where it makes no sense at all.

The ironic part of this is, if you look at the design argument, its actually strongly adaptionist, dare I say &lt;i&gt;Darwinian&lt;/i&gt; to the extreme, in scope.

I dunno though. Maybe the human genome makes up for in the &lt;i&gt;quality&lt;/i&gt; of the genes rather than in the quantity of the genome. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly Wes. When you actually try to use the ID arguments re. &#8216;junk&#8217; DNA on real organisms, you very quickly run into problems like these where it makes no sense at all.</p>
<p>The ironic part of this is, if you look at the design argument, its actually strongly adaptionist, dare I say <i>Darwinian</i> to the extreme, in scope.</p>
<p>I dunno though. Maybe the human genome makes up for in the <i>quality</i> of the genes rather than in the quantity of the genome. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Austringer</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/comment-page-2/#comment-131470</link>
		<dc:creator>Austringer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/#comment-131470</guid>
		<description>Actually, the &quot;junk DNA is designed&quot; folks have to look out for data from both directions: why do some organisms have much, much more DNA than humans, and why do some organisms have much, much less DNA than humans? If &quot;junk DNA&quot; fulfills a lot of unknown functional roles, why is it that mice with &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&amp;cmd=Retrieve&amp;list_uids=15496924&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;large swaths of their non-coding DNA deleted&lt;/a&gt; are still viable? And why does another vertebrate organism, the puffer fish, only have &lt;a href=&quot;http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_18_160/ai_80344962&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;about one-eight&lt;/a&gt; the number of DNA bases that humans have, even though it develops the typical vertebrate ensemble of tissues and organs?

Now, what would be amusing is an &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/02_01/Sizing_genomes.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;utilitarian argument deployed to explain the 670,000,000 base pairs of DNA in the &lt;i&gt;Amoeba dubia&lt;/i&gt; genome&lt;/a&gt;. Last I heard, these organisms were not exactly recommended for human consumption, even though they each have over 200x the number of base pairs of DNA found in humans. Tasty? I don&#039;t think so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the &#8220;junk DNA is designed&#8221; folks have to look out for data from both directions: why do some organisms have much, much more DNA than humans, and why do some organisms have much, much less DNA than humans? If &#8220;junk DNA&#8221; fulfills a lot of unknown functional roles, why is it that mice with <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&#038;cmd=Retrieve&#038;list_uids=15496924" rel="nofollow">large swaths of their non-coding DNA deleted</a> are still viable? And why does another vertebrate organism, the puffer fish, only have <a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_18_160/ai_80344962" rel="nofollow">about one-eight</a> the number of DNA bases that humans have, even though it develops the typical vertebrate ensemble of tissues and organs?</p>
<p>Now, what would be amusing is an <a href="http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/02_01/Sizing_genomes.shtml" rel="nofollow">utilitarian argument deployed to explain the 670,000,000 base pairs of DNA in the <i>Amoeba dubia</i> genome</a>. Last I heard, these organisms were not exactly recommended for human consumption, even though they each have over 200x the number of base pairs of DNA found in humans. Tasty? I don&#8217;t think so.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave S.</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/comment-page-1/#comment-131467</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:37:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/#comment-131467</guid>
		<description>One more thing.

There&#039;s nothing wrong with being ignorant. We are all ignorant of a great many things. I don&#039;t know much about jazz. Ask me to solve a diffential equation and I&#039;d flounder. What the main agricultural products of Senegal are, I can only guess.

But ignorance is curable. 

As the man says, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, by no-one is entitled to their own facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more thing.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s nothing wrong with being ignorant. We are all ignorant of a great many things. I don&#8217;t know much about jazz. Ask me to solve a diffential equation and I&#8217;d flounder. What the main agricultural products of Senegal are, I can only guess.</p>
<p>But ignorance is curable. </p>
<p>As the man says, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, by no-one is entitled to their own facts.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave S.</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/comment-page-1/#comment-131459</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/#comment-131459</guid>
		<description>Tina - 

I have no doubt the onion is a perfectly fine food with many benefits. I eat them myself with many meals. They are great with burgers. They don&#039;t need defending. 

All this is completely beside the point and has nothing to do with what I wrote. That was about junk DNA, a term that &lt;b&gt;you&lt;/b&gt; brought up Tina. The question is, &lt;i&gt;WHY&lt;/i&gt; does the onion have 5X our DNA? If anything, its the human that needs defending. Are we only a fifth as complex as an onion? What accounts for that?

I should say here that the Onion Test is not mine, it&#039;s Dr. Gregory&#039;s. A fact which would have been evident had you clicked the link I posted and looked at the other links contained therein.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tina &#8211; </p>
<p>I have no doubt the onion is a perfectly fine food with many benefits. I eat them myself with many meals. They are great with burgers. They don&#8217;t need defending. </p>
<p>All this is completely beside the point and has nothing to do with what I wrote. That was about junk DNA, a term that <b>you</b> brought up Tina. The question is, <i>WHY</i> does the onion have 5X our DNA? If anything, its the human that needs defending. Are we only a fifth as complex as an onion? What accounts for that?</p>
<p>I should say here that the Onion Test is not mine, it&#8217;s Dr. Gregory&#8217;s. A fact which would have been evident had you clicked the link I posted and looked at the other links contained therein.</p>
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		<title>By: Austringer</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/comment-page-1/#comment-131447</link>
		<dc:creator>Austringer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/#comment-131447</guid>
		<description>Ego-involvement isn&#039;t pretty. 

Telling falsehoods about the content of terms in science isn&#039;t pretty, either. I&#039;ll continue to call &#039;em as I spot errors. Like I said before, ignorance is curable. That doesn&#039;t mean that we have to accept statements made in ignorance while the cure is in progress.

I don&#039;t think utilitarianism concerning the onion is responsive to the point Dave S. made, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ego-involvement isn&#8217;t pretty. </p>
<p>Telling falsehoods about the content of terms in science isn&#8217;t pretty, either. I&#8217;ll continue to call &#8216;em as I spot errors. Like I said before, ignorance is curable. That doesn&#8217;t mean that we have to accept statements made in ignorance while the cure is in progress.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think utilitarianism concerning the onion is responsive to the point Dave S. made, either.</p>
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		<title>By: Tina</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/comment-page-1/#comment-131441</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2007/08/28/behe-the-expert-again/#comment-131441</guid>
		<description>Boy I just typed a whole box full of my defence of the humble onion - sent without entering anti-spam - and consequently wiped it all!. I&#039;m crying now - but that is good because I&#039;m currently researching tears(reflex tears) and that is why I&#039;m so up to speed on onions (ie as irritants to Basal tears).

DAVE IN ANSWER TO YOUR ONION TEST;

Onions are scientifically proven to have the following properties; Anti-oxidants - chelation of harmful modern day toxins cigarette smoke, traffic fumes. Have memory boosting and maintaining benefits, help maintain hippocampus for the processing of emotions. Aid to treatment of neurodegenaritive diseases, effective against common cold, heart disease, diabetes, osteoperosis. Increases circulation and lowers blood pressure. High energy food yet low in calorie.Rich source of vitamins B1,B6 and Folic acid. Wonderful in cooking and when lightly heated arouma probably there to make us want to eat the things because they are good for us. Cook too much and loose sulfur nutrient  benefits etc.Plus wards off Vampires too. Yes onions might have DNA  5 x humans but its also has complex benefits for humans...

Austringer what can I say to you other than I am a total ignoramus - not much I can do about it though. You can accept me how I am or reject - your choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy I just typed a whole box full of my defence of the humble onion &#8211; sent without entering anti-spam &#8211; and consequently wiped it all!. I&#8217;m crying now &#8211; but that is good because I&#8217;m currently researching tears(reflex tears) and that is why I&#8217;m so up to speed on onions (ie as irritants to Basal tears).</p>
<p>DAVE IN ANSWER TO YOUR ONION TEST;</p>
<p>Onions are scientifically proven to have the following properties; Anti-oxidants &#8211; chelation of harmful modern day toxins cigarette smoke, traffic fumes. Have memory boosting and maintaining benefits, help maintain hippocampus for the processing of emotions. Aid to treatment of neurodegenaritive diseases, effective against common cold, heart disease, diabetes, osteoperosis. Increases circulation and lowers blood pressure. High energy food yet low in calorie.Rich source of vitamins B1,B6 and Folic acid. Wonderful in cooking and when lightly heated arouma probably there to make us want to eat the things because they are good for us. Cook too much and loose sulfur nutrient  benefits etc.Plus wards off Vampires too. Yes onions might have DNA  5 x humans but its also has complex benefits for humans&#8230;</p>
<p>Austringer what can I say to you other than I am a total ignoramus &#8211; not much I can do about it though. You can accept me how I am or reject &#8211; your choice.</p>
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