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	<title>Comments on: Everything You Know About Genesis is Wrong</title>
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	<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2006/06/26/everything-you-know-about-genesis-is-wrong/</link>
	<description>Wesley R. Elsberry&#039;s personal weblog, talking about falconry, science, antievolution, computation, and the broken body he lives in.</description>
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		<title>By: Herman Cummings</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2006/06/26/everything-you-know-about-genesis-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-320677</link>
		<dc:creator>Herman Cummings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2011 22:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=316#comment-320677</guid>
		<description>I wanted to send this to Mr. Elsberry, but couldn&#039;t find an email address.  Littel did he know how close he was to hitting the bullseye.

*  *  *  *

The Truth of Genesis: A Challenge Given to the Pope!  
             
A while ago, there was a website article someone wrote called “Herman 
Cummings Challenges the Whole World”.  It related to the twin exposal 
articles (&quot;The Hypocrisy of Young Earth Creationism&quot;, &amp; “The Infidelity 
of Old Earth Creationism&quot;), which identified both the false and foolish 
doctrines of current Creationism.  I challenged all creationist groups 
around the world to come together, learn the truth of scripture, and unite 
in the fight against the atheistic scientific conclusion of the evolution 
theory.  

Unfortunately, no one accepted the challenge.  Therefore, my next article 
issued an “Indigenous Galactic Network Challenge” (&quot;Termination Notice: 
The End of Evolution&quot;), proclaiming the coming end of the monopoly of 
the evolution theory in our human culture.  Since none of the creationist 
groups wanted to repent, and forsake their false teachings, I decided to 
“launch out into battle” without them, inviting the world of evolution to a 
public “face-off”, armed only with the truth of God’s Written Word.  No 
evolutionist entity accepted my challenge, not even the National Center 
for Science Education.  They have been ducking me for years.  Their motto 
is “Defending the Teaching of Evolution in Public Schools”.

Afterwards, there was a challenge to La Sierra University, after they were 
in the news concerning their curriculum.  They were supposed to be 
associated with the Seventh Day Adventists, but they were apparently only 
teaching evolution in their biology classes.  

I first had written to them in April 2010, and no one responded.  I now wrote 
to them a year later (the admin office and 15 science professors), once again 
challenging them to host the 62 minute PowerPoint presentation named the
 “Observations of Moses”, which removes all confusion between what 
Moses saw and what science has discovered.  It was an opportunity for 
them to again get into “good standing” with their parent organization. But I 
received only one “weak” response, from a professor that said he didn&#039;t 
remember my first letter.  Yet regardless, they refused the challenge, along 
with Texas Tech University, whom I had forwarded the same letter.
 
Next, I issued a challenge to the Jews, in both America and Israel.

Over a year ago, in February 2010, I sent the presentation to the Sanhedrin 
in Israel.  I had told them that their planned Jerusalem Temple Mount 
sacrifices would be just a big joke if they themselves didn’t believe the 
scriptures.  In fact, my exact words were “If you, and the rest of the 
Sanhedrin, do not embrace the historical truth of Genesis, and refuse to 
correctly convey that truth to the nation of Israel (and the rest of the world), 
the Sanhedrin is unfit to govern and judge the people.  You are no better 
than a glorified council of the ungodly, denying the truth of Moses and 
the Prophets.  Do you want legitimacy, both at home and abroad? Then 
stop hiding under the bed of ignorance, and resolve this (evolution) issue.”

So, they asked for the presentation, and it “blew them away”.  They 
thought it was impossible to reconcile the literal reading of Genesis 
chapter one with scientific reality.  Yet there is was, right in their lap.  
But just like hypocrites, they saw it as a problem, rather than an opportunity.  
After they calmed down, and saw if they now embraced the truth, that they 
would now have to admit to the world that the venerated rabbi patriarchs of 
yesteryear did not understand the scriptures, and had been misleading the 
people.   So in order to “save the dead”, they’d have to let the living “die in 
ignorance”.  Therefore they tabled the issue. 

Now, coming back to the present, I issued another challenge (“Who Do 
You Believe…, Darwin or Moses?”) to rabbis &amp; Jewish organizations, and 
sent it to synagogues and Jewish publications, both in the USA and Israel.  
I got one response…, from a rabbi who said to “take me off your mailing 
list”.  I wrote back and said “Why?   Is it because you don’t believe in God?”.  

It is actually embarrassing that “God’s Chosen People” fail to even consider 
that Bereshit is literally true.  It’s so sad, that the leadership of the Jews is so 
cynical of the sacred scriptures.   In Exodus 32:9, it says “And the LORD 
said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked 
people:”. In Isaiah 30:9 it says “That this is a rebellious people, lying children, 
children that will not hear the law of the LORD:”. Can you imagine being 
married to such a spouse?  It’s no wonder the Jews are now a widow.

So, who is there left to challenge?  I’ve already written the White House, 
Congress, US Dept. of Education, every state Governor, state legislature, 
and state boards of education, along with state science education organizations.
Let’s not forget the colleges, universities, seminaries, various local school boards, 
high schools, middle schools, churches, synagogues, secular and religious 
publications,…and the list goes on.  

Well, it seems that the Vatican tries to tell the people to believe the Holy 
Scriptures (Creative Reason), but not to believe in them literally.  What?  In 
1st Corinthians 14:8, is says “For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who 
shall prepare himself to the battle?”.  In the game of basketball, there is 
what’s called a “double dribble”.  

So, now leaving the region of our “network of galaxies”, I offer this Universal 
Challenge!!  The term “Catholic”, basically means &quot;the Universal Church&quot;.  
So it’s only fitting that the Vatican (the Pope) should be the object of this 
challenge.  The leadership of the Jews failed (or were too scared) to accept 
my earlier taunt.  I now publically announce this new ultimatum.  “Yea, let 
God’s (Written Word) be true, but every man a liar;”.    

To Pope Benedict XVI, in Vatican City!!  Come to America, where 
mankind first learned the truth of motorized flight.  Leave the confounds 
of the Holy See, and visit the USA, where mankind first learned of the 
truth of our Moon, and bought back rock samples from an alien world for 
all mankind to view.  Now, amend your schedule, and journey to “the fruited 
plain”.  Let God mend your every flaw.  Confirm thy soul, in self control…, 
thy liberty in (God&#039;s) Law.   

Come to America, and see for yourself, that the Word of Genesis is 
literally true, and the conclusions of science (and doctrines of current
Creationism) are false.  Come and see the “Observations of Moses”, so 
that you can then declare to all the people, that God created all, in just 144 
hours, and that repentance is now in order.  
 
Herman Cummings
ephraim7@aol.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wanted to send this to Mr. Elsberry, but couldn&#8217;t find an email address.  Littel did he know how close he was to hitting the bullseye.</p>
<p>*  *  *  *</p>
<p>The Truth of Genesis: A Challenge Given to the Pope!  </p>
<p>A while ago, there was a website article someone wrote called “Herman<br />
Cummings Challenges the Whole World”.  It related to the twin exposal<br />
articles (&#8220;The Hypocrisy of Young Earth Creationism&#8221;, &amp; “The Infidelity<br />
of Old Earth Creationism&#8221;), which identified both the false and foolish<br />
doctrines of current Creationism.  I challenged all creationist groups<br />
around the world to come together, learn the truth of scripture, and unite<br />
in the fight against the atheistic scientific conclusion of the evolution<br />
theory.  </p>
<p>Unfortunately, no one accepted the challenge.  Therefore, my next article<br />
issued an “Indigenous Galactic Network Challenge” (&#8220;Termination Notice:<br />
The End of Evolution&#8221;), proclaiming the coming end of the monopoly of<br />
the evolution theory in our human culture.  Since none of the creationist<br />
groups wanted to repent, and forsake their false teachings, I decided to<br />
“launch out into battle” without them, inviting the world of evolution to a<br />
public “face-off”, armed only with the truth of God’s Written Word.  No<br />
evolutionist entity accepted my challenge, not even the National Center<br />
for Science Education.  They have been ducking me for years.  Their motto<br />
is “Defending the Teaching of Evolution in Public Schools”.</p>
<p>Afterwards, there was a challenge to La Sierra University, after they were<br />
in the news concerning their curriculum.  They were supposed to be<br />
associated with the Seventh Day Adventists, but they were apparently only<br />
teaching evolution in their biology classes.  </p>
<p>I first had written to them in April 2010, and no one responded.  I now wrote<br />
to them a year later (the admin office and 15 science professors), once again<br />
challenging them to host the 62 minute PowerPoint presentation named the<br />
 “Observations of Moses”, which removes all confusion between what<br />
Moses saw and what science has discovered.  It was an opportunity for<br />
them to again get into “good standing” with their parent organization. But I<br />
received only one “weak” response, from a professor that said he didn&#8217;t<br />
remember my first letter.  Yet regardless, they refused the challenge, along<br />
with Texas Tech University, whom I had forwarded the same letter.</p>
<p>Next, I issued a challenge to the Jews, in both America and Israel.</p>
<p>Over a year ago, in February 2010, I sent the presentation to the Sanhedrin<br />
in Israel.  I had told them that their planned Jerusalem Temple Mount<br />
sacrifices would be just a big joke if they themselves didn’t believe the<br />
scriptures.  In fact, my exact words were “If you, and the rest of the<br />
Sanhedrin, do not embrace the historical truth of Genesis, and refuse to<br />
correctly convey that truth to the nation of Israel (and the rest of the world),<br />
the Sanhedrin is unfit to govern and judge the people.  You are no better<br />
than a glorified council of the ungodly, denying the truth of Moses and<br />
the Prophets.  Do you want legitimacy, both at home and abroad? Then<br />
stop hiding under the bed of ignorance, and resolve this (evolution) issue.”</p>
<p>So, they asked for the presentation, and it “blew them away”.  They<br />
thought it was impossible to reconcile the literal reading of Genesis<br />
chapter one with scientific reality.  Yet there is was, right in their lap.<br />
But just like hypocrites, they saw it as a problem, rather than an opportunity.<br />
After they calmed down, and saw if they now embraced the truth, that they<br />
would now have to admit to the world that the venerated rabbi patriarchs of<br />
yesteryear did not understand the scriptures, and had been misleading the<br />
people.   So in order to “save the dead”, they’d have to let the living “die in<br />
ignorance”.  Therefore they tabled the issue. </p>
<p>Now, coming back to the present, I issued another challenge (“Who Do<br />
You Believe…, Darwin or Moses?”) to rabbis &amp; Jewish organizations, and<br />
sent it to synagogues and Jewish publications, both in the USA and Israel.<br />
I got one response…, from a rabbi who said to “take me off your mailing<br />
list”.  I wrote back and said “Why?   Is it because you don’t believe in God?”.  </p>
<p>It is actually embarrassing that “God’s Chosen People” fail to even consider<br />
that Bereshit is literally true.  It’s so sad, that the leadership of the Jews is so<br />
cynical of the sacred scriptures.   In Exodus 32:9, it says “And the LORD<br />
said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked<br />
people:”. In Isaiah 30:9 it says “That this is a rebellious people, lying children,<br />
children that will not hear the law of the LORD:”. Can you imagine being<br />
married to such a spouse?  It’s no wonder the Jews are now a widow.</p>
<p>So, who is there left to challenge?  I’ve already written the White House,<br />
Congress, US Dept. of Education, every state Governor, state legislature,<br />
and state boards of education, along with state science education organizations.<br />
Let’s not forget the colleges, universities, seminaries, various local school boards,<br />
high schools, middle schools, churches, synagogues, secular and religious<br />
publications,…and the list goes on.  </p>
<p>Well, it seems that the Vatican tries to tell the people to believe the Holy<br />
Scriptures (Creative Reason), but not to believe in them literally.  What?  In<br />
1st Corinthians 14:8, is says “For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who<br />
shall prepare himself to the battle?”.  In the game of basketball, there is<br />
what’s called a “double dribble”.  </p>
<p>So, now leaving the region of our “network of galaxies”, I offer this Universal<br />
Challenge!!  The term “Catholic”, basically means &#8220;the Universal Church&#8221;.<br />
So it’s only fitting that the Vatican (the Pope) should be the object of this<br />
challenge.  The leadership of the Jews failed (or were too scared) to accept<br />
my earlier taunt.  I now publically announce this new ultimatum.  “Yea, let<br />
God’s (Written Word) be true, but every man a liar;”.    </p>
<p>To Pope Benedict XVI, in Vatican City!!  Come to America, where<br />
mankind first learned the truth of motorized flight.  Leave the confounds<br />
of the Holy See, and visit the USA, where mankind first learned of the<br />
truth of our Moon, and bought back rock samples from an alien world for<br />
all mankind to view.  Now, amend your schedule, and journey to “the fruited<br />
plain”.  Let God mend your every flaw.  Confirm thy soul, in self control…,<br />
thy liberty in (God&#8217;s) Law.   </p>
<p>Come to America, and see for yourself, that the Word of Genesis is<br />
literally true, and the conclusions of science (and doctrines of current<br />
Creationism) are false.  Come and see the “Observations of Moses”, so<br />
that you can then declare to all the people, that God created all, in just 144<br />
hours, and that repentance is now in order.  </p>
<p>Herman Cummings<br />
<a href="mailto:ephraim7@aol.com">ephraim7@aol.com</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ANDROLOMA</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2006/06/26/everything-you-know-about-genesis-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-241712</link>
		<dc:creator>ANDROLOMA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=316#comment-241712</guid>
		<description>Interesting thread, yet we examine the intricacies while ignoring the obvious large-scale conundrums?

Why would God create an expanding universe? What need is there for a universe which grows unchecked? If it&#039;s true that nature abhors a vacuum, then surely intellect, much less a Grand Intellect, must abhor waste. And the greatest waste of space in the universe is the universe.

My book is called &quot;the Secular Apologist,&quot; available nowhere as of yet. It contains many more challenging questions to the supernatural, mystical universe primitive minds have fabricated over the centuries; addressed to the simple minds who embrace these out-moded concepts. If evolution is ever proven wrong, the proof cannot prove the Bible right.

There is more to this life than science or religion can ever possibly offer, but these two theosophies make for intriguing diversions. Please don&#039;t go to my website unless you have a mighty crass sense of humor. I could have written a better bible than the one we ended up with. I would tend to surmise the creator of the universe got stuck with sub-standard scribes. I am not cowardly enough to meet Pascal&#039;s wager. The energy expenditure to keep a paradise and an inferno maintained should be enough to occupy two deities, much less one.

That is all. Thank you for your attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting thread, yet we examine the intricacies while ignoring the obvious large-scale conundrums?</p>
<p>Why would God create an expanding universe? What need is there for a universe which grows unchecked? If it&#8217;s true that nature abhors a vacuum, then surely intellect, much less a Grand Intellect, must abhor waste. And the greatest waste of space in the universe is the universe.</p>
<p>My book is called &#8220;the Secular Apologist,&#8221; available nowhere as of yet. It contains many more challenging questions to the supernatural, mystical universe primitive minds have fabricated over the centuries; addressed to the simple minds who embrace these out-moded concepts. If evolution is ever proven wrong, the proof cannot prove the Bible right.</p>
<p>There is more to this life than science or religion can ever possibly offer, but these two theosophies make for intriguing diversions. Please don&#8217;t go to my website unless you have a mighty crass sense of humor. I could have written a better bible than the one we ended up with. I would tend to surmise the creator of the universe got stuck with sub-standard scribes. I am not cowardly enough to meet Pascal&#8217;s wager. The energy expenditure to keep a paradise and an inferno maintained should be enough to occupy two deities, much less one.</p>
<p>That is all. Thank you for your attention.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Austringer</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2006/06/26/everything-you-know-about-genesis-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-216998</link>
		<dc:creator>Austringer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=316#comment-216998</guid>
		<description>Yes, the digital organisms in Avida start as a self-replicator, and evolutionary processes do the rest of the programming. You do realize that that is what was at issue for Schutzenberger, that he declared that it was impossible for genetic programming to work at all? 

Nice attempt to shift the goalposts. That sort of thing gets noticed, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the digital organisms in Avida start as a self-replicator, and evolutionary processes do the rest of the programming. You do realize that that is what was at issue for Schutzenberger, that he declared that it was impossible for genetic programming to work at all? </p>
<p>Nice attempt to shift the goalposts. That sort of thing gets noticed, though.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: tripa</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2006/06/26/everything-you-know-about-genesis-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-216995</link>
		<dc:creator>tripa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 05:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=316#comment-216995</guid>
		<description>Yes, that&#039;s all very interesting - of note is that in order to get an evolving self-replicating program to not end up dead, it took a human&#039;s design skills to limit randomly generated code from randomly and prematurely killing off digital organisms. To me it seems it needed to be helped along to the stage where it could then follow processes of selection and adaptation. (which is basically what I eluded to above, before I read up on it).

I&#039;m not really interested in defamatory argument with you - all I&#039;m saying is that the product of the probabilities of the required beneficial mutations enabling evolution is infinitely, immeasureably and unacceptably expansive.

&quot;For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God&#039;s sight. As it is written: &quot;He catches the wise in their craftiness&quot;&quot;(1 Corinthians 3:19)

Seeya.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, that&#8217;s all very interesting &#8211; of note is that in order to get an evolving self-replicating program to not end up dead, it took a human&#8217;s design skills to limit randomly generated code from randomly and prematurely killing off digital organisms. To me it seems it needed to be helped along to the stage where it could then follow processes of selection and adaptation. (which is basically what I eluded to above, before I read up on it).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not really interested in defamatory argument with you &#8211; all I&#8217;m saying is that the product of the probabilities of the required beneficial mutations enabling evolution is infinitely, immeasureably and unacceptably expansive.</p>
<p>&#8220;For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God&#8217;s sight. As it is written: &#8220;He catches the wise in their craftiness&#8221;"(1 Corinthians 3:19)</p>
<p>Seeya.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Austringer</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2006/06/26/everything-you-know-about-genesis-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-216449</link>
		<dc:creator>Austringer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 11:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=316#comment-216449</guid>
		<description>I use the Avida artificial life platform. There&#039;s no shooting in the foot going on on my part. Look it up, &quot;tripa&quot;, you might learn something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use the Avida artificial life platform. There&#8217;s no shooting in the foot going on on my part. Look it up, &#8220;tripa&#8221;, you might learn something.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tripa</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2006/06/26/everything-you-know-about-genesis-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-216225</link>
		<dc:creator>tripa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 00:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=316#comment-216225</guid>
		<description>Hey &quot;Austringer&quot;

&quot;I work day in and day out evolving programs on the computer.&quot;

That&#039;s great, it makes a lot of sense...&quot;I work&quot; doesn&#039;t really amount to random processes - what did these computer programs just write themselves? And I suppose if it&#039;s not working, you might stop it, and start it again with some changes? Now who&#039;s shooting themself in the foot??

Do the math, man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey &#8220;Austringer&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I work day in and day out evolving programs on the computer.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s great, it makes a lot of sense&#8230;&#8221;I work&#8221; doesn&#8217;t really amount to random processes &#8211; what did these computer programs just write themselves? And I suppose if it&#8217;s not working, you might stop it, and start it again with some changes? Now who&#8217;s shooting themself in the foot??</p>
<p>Do the math, man.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Austringer</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2006/06/26/everything-you-know-about-genesis-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-215957</link>
		<dc:creator>Austringer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 09:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=316#comment-215957</guid>
		<description>Wow, &quot;tripa&quot;&#039;s quoting of Denton&#039;s passing along of Marcel-Paul Schutzenberger&#039;s false assertions gives me a feeling of nostalgia. I used the antievolutionist fondness for M-PS&#039;s stuff as a case study in my 1997 presentation at the NTSE conference. M-PS was, in fact, corrected right at the conference he presented at, as documented in the proceedings, but the antievolutionists have clung to the deluded notion that he had a point that withstood more than a couple of minutes&#039; scrutiny.

Genetic programming is a tough field, but people other than M-PS managed to succeed where M-PS simply declared his personal failure a universal attribute of Reality. I work day in and day out evolving programs on the computer. So Denton&#039;s quote actually goes the other way: given that evolution in fully analogous systems does happen, we have greater confidence in our other findings that show that biological evolution is well-supported.

Thanks for the great demonstration of shooting yourself in the foot, &quot;tripa&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, &#8220;tripa&#8221;&#8216;s quoting of Denton&#8217;s passing along of Marcel-Paul Schutzenberger&#8217;s false assertions gives me a feeling of nostalgia. I used the antievolutionist fondness for M-PS&#8217;s stuff as a case study in my 1997 presentation at the NTSE conference. M-PS was, in fact, corrected right at the conference he presented at, as documented in the proceedings, but the antievolutionists have clung to the deluded notion that he had a point that withstood more than a couple of minutes&#8217; scrutiny.</p>
<p>Genetic programming is a tough field, but people other than M-PS managed to succeed where M-PS simply declared his personal failure a universal attribute of Reality. I work day in and day out evolving programs on the computer. So Denton&#8217;s quote actually goes the other way: given that evolution in fully analogous systems does happen, we have greater confidence in our other findings that show that biological evolution is well-supported.</p>
<p>Thanks for the great demonstration of shooting yourself in the foot, &#8220;tripa&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tripa</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2006/06/26/everything-you-know-about-genesis-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-215898</link>
		<dc:creator>tripa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 07:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=316#comment-215898</guid>
		<description>Matt,

When you say &quot;but that hasn&#039;t happened.&quot;

How do you know what happened? Were you there? Was anyone?

What you mean is that your theory doesn&#039;t predict that massive changes occurred, it predicts small changes (like the list Austringer provided, which I looked up) over massive time frames.

I accept that mutations have lead to other functions being enabled. But I don&#039;t accept that it has lead to a more complex organism; I don&#039;t accept that it is macro-evolution.

Even if the mutations are beneficial, do you know what the chances are of even getting 2 related beneficial mutations in a row is? (Let alone the amount needed for one organism to change into something else). The maths doesn&#039;t even add up, it&#039;s way way off the mark. I&#039;ll use a quote to put it more eloquently,

&quot;If complex computer programs cannot be changed by random mechanisms, then surely the same must apply to the genetic programs of living organisms. The fact that systems in every way analogous to living organisms cannot undergo evolution by pure trial and error [i.e., by mutation and selection] and that their functional distribution invariably conforms to an improbable discontinuum comes, in my opinion, very close to a formal disproof of the whole Darwinian paradigm of nature. By what strange capacity do living organisms defy the laws of chance which are apparently obeyed by all analogous complex systems?&quot; (Denton)

As to the problems with human design - earlier you mentioned the appendix as evidence of a lack of design, as it&#039;s obsolete. Says who? Maybe in times gone by, it was considered obsolete, along with a number of other organs, which was an attempt to bolster evidence that we&#039;re evolving. This list of apparently &#039;functionless&#039; structures has gradually declined to almost zero. (while removal of an appendix may be surviveable, removal of most of the others on the list is definitely not surviveable!)

These days the appendix is recognised as having a function, and serving a purpose - a member of the lymphatic system. It is possible to live without it only due to the body&#039;s ability to compensate after it&#039;s removal. Gall bladder also has a function, but can also be removed and again the body compensates - kidneys, thymus (in adults) etc.

So why would have it been designed in the first place? I don&#039;t beleive the world we live in is as it was supposed to be when it was designed. Although we are perfectly designed, the world is definitely not, and so we&#039;re constrained by that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<p>When you say &#8220;but that hasn&#8217;t happened.&#8221;</p>
<p>How do you know what happened? Were you there? Was anyone?</p>
<p>What you mean is that your theory doesn&#8217;t predict that massive changes occurred, it predicts small changes (like the list Austringer provided, which I looked up) over massive time frames.</p>
<p>I accept that mutations have lead to other functions being enabled. But I don&#8217;t accept that it has lead to a more complex organism; I don&#8217;t accept that it is macro-evolution.</p>
<p>Even if the mutations are beneficial, do you know what the chances are of even getting 2 related beneficial mutations in a row is? (Let alone the amount needed for one organism to change into something else). The maths doesn&#8217;t even add up, it&#8217;s way way off the mark. I&#8217;ll use a quote to put it more eloquently,</p>
<p>&#8220;If complex computer programs cannot be changed by random mechanisms, then surely the same must apply to the genetic programs of living organisms. The fact that systems in every way analogous to living organisms cannot undergo evolution by pure trial and error [i.e., by mutation and selection] and that their functional distribution invariably conforms to an improbable discontinuum comes, in my opinion, very close to a formal disproof of the whole Darwinian paradigm of nature. By what strange capacity do living organisms defy the laws of chance which are apparently obeyed by all analogous complex systems?&#8221; (Denton)</p>
<p>As to the problems with human design &#8211; earlier you mentioned the appendix as evidence of a lack of design, as it&#8217;s obsolete. Says who? Maybe in times gone by, it was considered obsolete, along with a number of other organs, which was an attempt to bolster evidence that we&#8217;re evolving. This list of apparently &#8216;functionless&#8217; structures has gradually declined to almost zero. (while removal of an appendix may be surviveable, removal of most of the others on the list is definitely not surviveable!)</p>
<p>These days the appendix is recognised as having a function, and serving a purpose &#8211; a member of the lymphatic system. It is possible to live without it only due to the body&#8217;s ability to compensate after it&#8217;s removal. Gall bladder also has a function, but can also be removed and again the body compensates &#8211; kidneys, thymus (in adults) etc.</p>
<p>So why would have it been designed in the first place? I don&#8217;t beleive the world we live in is as it was supposed to be when it was designed. Although we are perfectly designed, the world is definitely not, and so we&#8217;re constrained by that.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: matt</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2006/06/26/everything-you-know-about-genesis-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-215047</link>
		<dc:creator>matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 02:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=316#comment-215047</guid>
		<description>Tripa your right evoultion couldn&#039;t explain if anything like that happened, but that hasn&#039;t happened.  The evoultionary model (which pridicts gradual change) has been shown several times (Austringer pressented a very good list of actual  examples of maco-evoultion).

Tripa can you explain why the any of the problems with human &quot;design&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tripa your right evoultion couldn&#8217;t explain if anything like that happened, but that hasn&#8217;t happened.  The evoultionary model (which pridicts gradual change) has been shown several times (Austringer pressented a very good list of actual  examples of maco-evoultion).</p>
<p>Tripa can you explain why the any of the problems with human &#8220;design&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: tripa</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2006/06/26/everything-you-know-about-genesis-is-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-211530</link>
		<dc:creator>tripa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 02:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=316#comment-211530</guid>
		<description>&quot;The funny thing is that if a single bactrium (or a group of bactiria within even a few thousand generations) did any of the things you said it would blow evoultionary theory out of the water.&quot;

As you admit, your theory of evolution can&#039;t even explain if a single bacterium DID make some jumps into something more complex like a phyto-plankton. So how the hell does your useless theory account for something as amazing as a bat catching a moth in flight using sonar, or an athlete intercepting a ball in flight, and not falling over? Evidence of amazing design. Tell me how our spine could be better designed for walking on two feet than it is now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The funny thing is that if a single bactrium (or a group of bactiria within even a few thousand generations) did any of the things you said it would blow evoultionary theory out of the water.&#8221;</p>
<p>As you admit, your theory of evolution can&#8217;t even explain if a single bacterium DID make some jumps into something more complex like a phyto-plankton. So how the hell does your useless theory account for something as amazing as a bat catching a moth in flight using sonar, or an athlete intercepting a ball in flight, and not falling over? Evidence of amazing design. Tell me how our spine could be better designed for walking on two feet than it is now?</p>
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