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	<title>Comments on: Censorship at PT? I Don&#8217;t Think So.</title>
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	<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2005/05/05/censorship-at-pt-i-dont-think-so/</link>
	<description>Wesley R. Elsberry&#039;s personal weblog, talking about falconry, science, antievolution, computation, and the broken body he lives in.</description>
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		<title>By: slpage</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2005/05/05/censorship-at-pt-i-dont-think-so/comment-page-1/#comment-6059</link>
		<dc:creator>slpage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2005 13:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=112#comment-6059</guid>
		<description>I must say that I find it a bit disturbing that Davison and David Springer are so obsessed with me and feel the need to drop my name so frequently.  It is almost as if I am being stalked by these two unstable individuals.  I did find it somewhat comical that they both believed that I was GWW for some time, and believed that referring to him with my name would somehow intimidate him/me (the &quot;I know who you are&quot; routine), when in fact at that time I had not posted at PT for months.  Apparently, their perception of their own sleuthing abilities is as overblown as their confidence in their positions.
But, I have had creationists obsessed with me before - one even took to posting my address in his posts and making thinly veiled threats such as &#039;not everyone drives through [where I live] for the skiing&#039;.  Good Christian creationist, he was.  Funny how upset some can become when their worldview is challenged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must say that I find it a bit disturbing that Davison and David Springer are so obsessed with me and feel the need to drop my name so frequently.  It is almost as if I am being stalked by these two unstable individuals.  I did find it somewhat comical that they both believed that I was GWW for some time, and believed that referring to him with my name would somehow intimidate him/me (the &#8220;I know who you are&#8221; routine), when in fact at that time I had not posted at PT for months.  Apparently, their perception of their own sleuthing abilities is as overblown as their confidence in their positions.<br />
But, I have had creationists obsessed with me before &#8211; one even took to posting my address in his posts and making thinly veiled threats such as &#8216;not everyone drives through [where I live] for the skiing&#8217;.  Good Christian creationist, he was.  Funny how upset some can become when their worldview is challenged.</p>
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		<title>By: Great White Wonder</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2005/05/05/censorship-at-pt-i-dont-think-so/comment-page-1/#comment-5968</link>
		<dc:creator>Great White Wonder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 May 2005 18:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=112#comment-5968</guid>
		<description>Wesley

&quot;Personally, I hadnâ€™t gotten to a point where I felt that GWW had crossed a threshold of offensiveness&quot;

I was trying really really hard. ;)

&quot;The description Nick gave was of a comment that posited Phillip Johnson in various sexual positions.&quot;

Oh geez.  Someone&#039;s imagination has gotten the better of him.

Or perhaps the titillating metaphor is dead.  Is it no longer appropriate to write that two entities are &quot;in bed with each other&quot;?  That a pandering article is akin to &quot;pillow talk&quot; between the article&#039;s writer and the subject.  What about being a &quot;suck up&quot;?  Or a &quot;bootlicker&quot;?  A &quot;back massager&quot;?  Blowing sunshine up one&#039;s arse?

That&#039;s the sort of &quot;obscenity&quot; we&#039;re talking about here.

I&#039;d give me left, er, pinkie to have the post back because it was a superb effort on my part, if I do say so myself. :)  I touched on some aspects of the article that were not explored in the now-derailed thread.   

Sigh.

As I alluded to above, I have occasion to mingle with Nick in other forums and I&#039;ll plead my case to him in person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wesley</p>
<p>&#8220;Personally, I hadnâ€™t gotten to a point where I felt that GWW had crossed a threshold of offensiveness&#8221;</p>
<p>I was trying really really hard. ;)</p>
<p>&#8220;The description Nick gave was of a comment that posited Phillip Johnson in various sexual positions.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh geez.  Someone&#8217;s imagination has gotten the better of him.</p>
<p>Or perhaps the titillating metaphor is dead.  Is it no longer appropriate to write that two entities are &#8220;in bed with each other&#8221;?  That a pandering article is akin to &#8220;pillow talk&#8221; between the article&#8217;s writer and the subject.  What about being a &#8220;suck up&#8221;?  Or a &#8220;bootlicker&#8221;?  A &#8220;back massager&#8221;?  Blowing sunshine up one&#8217;s arse?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the sort of &#8220;obscenity&#8221; we&#8217;re talking about here.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d give me left, er, pinkie to have the post back because it was a superb effort on my part, if I do say so myself. :)  I touched on some aspects of the article that were not explored in the now-derailed thread.   </p>
<p>Sigh.</p>
<p>As I alluded to above, I have occasion to mingle with Nick in other forums and I&#8217;ll plead my case to him in person.</p>
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		<title>By: Austringer</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2005/05/05/censorship-at-pt-i-dont-think-so/comment-page-1/#comment-5967</link>
		<dc:creator>Austringer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 May 2005 13:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=112#comment-5967</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m afraid that I did not see the posting that led to GWW&#039;s ban. I think that GWW does have a point about the futility of trying to avoid the &quot;nanny&quot; internet site blocking software, which often appears to block on political stance rather than simple obscenity keywords. 

I don&#039;t think that suggesting &quot;clearly and repeatedly that fundamentalism lies at the core of the Kansas nonsense&quot; had anything to do with GWW&#039;s banning, though. Nor would a consistently negative tone taken toward anti-science advocates. It&#039;s that stridency thing, which all too easily can give offense. Personally, I hadn&#039;t gotten to a point where I felt that GWW had crossed a threshold of offensiveness, but then I didn&#039;t see that last comment, either. The description Nick gave was of a comment that posited Phillip Johnson in various sexual positions. If that was accurate, yes, I probably would have found that offensive beyond what I want to be delivered via one of my web sites.

There&#039;s nothing mysterious about the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pandasthumb.org/pt-archives/000002.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PT crew&lt;/a&gt;, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m afraid that I did not see the posting that led to GWW&#8217;s ban. I think that GWW does have a point about the futility of trying to avoid the &#8220;nanny&#8221; internet site blocking software, which often appears to block on political stance rather than simple obscenity keywords. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that suggesting &#8220;clearly and repeatedly that fundamentalism lies at the core of the Kansas nonsense&#8221; had anything to do with GWW&#8217;s banning, though. Nor would a consistently negative tone taken toward anti-science advocates. It&#8217;s that stridency thing, which all too easily can give offense. Personally, I hadn&#8217;t gotten to a point where I felt that GWW had crossed a threshold of offensiveness, but then I didn&#8217;t see that last comment, either. The description Nick gave was of a comment that posited Phillip Johnson in various sexual positions. If that was accurate, yes, I probably would have found that offensive beyond what I want to be delivered via one of my web sites.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s nothing mysterious about the <a href="http://www.pandasthumb.org/pt-archives/000002.html" rel="nofollow">PT crew</a>, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Great White Wonder</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2005/05/05/censorship-at-pt-i-dont-think-so/comment-page-1/#comment-5965</link>
		<dc:creator>Great White Wonder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 May 2005 23:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=112#comment-5965</guid>
		<description>Oh the irony.

Perhaps this is a reasonable place to express my disappointment over Nick Matske&#039;s banning me from Panda&#039;s Thumb earlier this week.  

Did you read my &quot;obscene&quot; comment that led to the ban, Wesley?  Can you explain to me what was &quot;obscene&quot; about the comment?  Can you explain to me how, as Ian Musgrave suggested, my comment -- among all the other comments on the blog -- would have caused Pandas Thumb to be marked prohibited by &quot;Nanny&quot; software at &quot;hundreds&quot; of &quot;educational institutions&quot;?

I will inevitably confront Nick about his decision in person.  I think it was an asinine indefensible and cowardly move.  Habitual liars are allowed to comment on the blog indefinitely.  They are allowed to spew their nonsense over and over and over again.

But adopting a consistent and stridently negative tone towards them? And daring to suggest clearly and repeatedly that fundamentalism lies at the core of the Kansas nonsense? How dare you, says Nick Matzke on behalf of the mysterious PT crew which includes members who, on their own time, express their desire to see human beings buried alive (e.g., Ed Brayton).

The most troubling aspect of the ban is simply that there was no justification for it.  I had been warned.  And I had heeded the warning.  What the hell else am I supposed to do, Wesley?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh the irony.</p>
<p>Perhaps this is a reasonable place to express my disappointment over Nick Matske&#8217;s banning me from Panda&#8217;s Thumb earlier this week.  </p>
<p>Did you read my &#8220;obscene&#8221; comment that led to the ban, Wesley?  Can you explain to me what was &#8220;obscene&#8221; about the comment?  Can you explain to me how, as Ian Musgrave suggested, my comment &#8212; among all the other comments on the blog &#8212; would have caused Pandas Thumb to be marked prohibited by &#8220;Nanny&#8221; software at &#8220;hundreds&#8221; of &#8220;educational institutions&#8221;?</p>
<p>I will inevitably confront Nick about his decision in person.  I think it was an asinine indefensible and cowardly move.  Habitual liars are allowed to comment on the blog indefinitely.  They are allowed to spew their nonsense over and over and over again.</p>
<p>But adopting a consistent and stridently negative tone towards them? And daring to suggest clearly and repeatedly that fundamentalism lies at the core of the Kansas nonsense? How dare you, says Nick Matzke on behalf of the mysterious PT crew which includes members who, on their own time, express their desire to see human beings buried alive (e.g., Ed Brayton).</p>
<p>The most troubling aspect of the ban is simply that there was no justification for it.  I had been warned.  And I had heeded the warning.  What the hell else am I supposed to do, Wesley?</p>
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		<title>By: John A. Davison</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2005/05/05/censorship-at-pt-i-dont-think-so/comment-page-1/#comment-5808</link>
		<dc:creator>John A. Davison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2005 20:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=112#comment-5808</guid>
		<description>Wesley

With respect to a &quot;matter of record.&quot;

Thank you so much for reproducing, for a discriminating reader, some of my more penetrating observations on the Darwinian myth. Any publicity is good publicity don&#039;t you know. Thanks again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wesley</p>
<p>With respect to a &#8220;matter of record.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thank you so much for reproducing, for a discriminating reader, some of my more penetrating observations on the Darwinian myth. Any publicity is good publicity don&#8217;t you know. Thanks again.</p>
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		<title>By: John A. Davison</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2005/05/05/censorship-at-pt-i-dont-think-so/comment-page-1/#comment-5796</link>
		<dc:creator>John A. Davison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2005 09:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=112#comment-5796</guid>
		<description>As for my behavior on PT, &quot;When in Rome, do as the Romans do.&quot; Any forum that can tolerate the behavior of Scott L. Page and Pim van Meurs can certainly accept little old harmless, senile John A. Davison. I should be flattered that I get special treatment, such as having every post automatically transmitted to the latrine. I must be doing something right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for my behavior on PT, &#8220;When in Rome, do as the Romans do.&#8221; Any forum that can tolerate the behavior of Scott L. Page and Pim van Meurs can certainly accept little old harmless, senile John A. Davison. I should be flattered that I get special treatment, such as having every post automatically transmitted to the latrine. I must be doing something right.</p>
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		<title>By: Austringer</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2005/05/05/censorship-at-pt-i-dont-think-so/comment-page-1/#comment-5793</link>
		<dc:creator>Austringer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2005 03:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=112#comment-5793</guid>
		<description>Comments here do not get posted immediately. The number of &quot;spam&quot; comments that get entered, sometimes over 100 per day, precludes immediate unmoderated comment entry.

As to Davison&#039;s behavior on PT, that is a &lt;a href=&quot;http://antievolution.org/features/mtexp.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;matter of record&lt;/a&gt;.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comments here do not get posted immediately. The number of &#8220;spam&#8221; comments that get entered, sometimes over 100 per day, precludes immediate unmoderated comment entry.</p>
<p>As to Davison&#8217;s behavior on PT, that is a <a href="http://antievolution.org/features/mtexp.php" rel="nofollow">matter of record</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: John A. Davison</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2005/05/05/censorship-at-pt-i-dont-think-so/comment-page-1/#comment-5760</link>
		<dc:creator>John A. Davison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2005 10:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=112#comment-5760</guid>
		<description>I have always consistently posted on topic. The topic on whch I have been entirely consistent is that there is absolutely nothing in the Darwinian paradigm that ever had anything to do with organic evolution. When the forum title, Panda&#039;s Thumb, honors a book by one of the primary spokespersons for the Darwinian myth, no one should be surprised that my evolutionary views might be considered anathema to such an audience. My reception at Panda&#039;s Thumb has been very similar to that at EvC. At EvC I was confined to &quot;Boot Camp,&quot; the equivelent to &quot;The Bathroom Wall&quot; at PT. Both institutions have adopted similar strategies for dealing with dissenters. They include isolation, organized groupthink denigration and ridicule, disemvowelization (that is a PT special technique), summary deletion and, as a last resort of course, lifetime banishment, the ultimate expression of intolerance to ideas not in conformity with the &quot;standard,&quot; as if there ever was one. The simple truth is that evolution remains a gigantic mystery for which there is as yet no adequate explanation. To proceed, as Panda&#039;s Thumb so obviously has, supporting the Darwwinian model with what Pierre Grasse described as &quot;Olympian assurance&quot; is no longer acceptable in light of the findings of modern molecular biology. Of course it never was but it is becoming more and more evident that Darwinism in all its trappings was a fatal error in the search for the truth. At its inception it was nothing but the simultaneous vision of a couple of Victorian naturalists who happened to have shared the same reading experience with the works of Thomas Malthus and Charles Lyell. It was the logical perspective of what has been called the &quot;Age of Enlightenment,&quot; a new view of the world which denied a God of any sort, past or present, a view which assumed that the material world was separate from a created world and no longer required a Creator in any form. Nothing could be further from reality. Everything we are now learning pleads in favor of a highly predetermined universe, planned, front loaded and now largely if not completely executed. While there is admittedly no evidence for a Creator at present, one must have been involved in determining every subsequent event in the beginning. Of that I remain certain.  That conviction would seem to be an unpardonable sin at Panda&#039;s Thumb as it was at EvC and &quot;brainstorms&quot; the forum of ISCID.

&quot;Everything is determined...by forces over which we have no control.&quot;
Albert Einstein</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have always consistently posted on topic. The topic on whch I have been entirely consistent is that there is absolutely nothing in the Darwinian paradigm that ever had anything to do with organic evolution. When the forum title, Panda&#8217;s Thumb, honors a book by one of the primary spokespersons for the Darwinian myth, no one should be surprised that my evolutionary views might be considered anathema to such an audience. My reception at Panda&#8217;s Thumb has been very similar to that at EvC. At EvC I was confined to &#8220;Boot Camp,&#8221; the equivelent to &#8220;The Bathroom Wall&#8221; at PT. Both institutions have adopted similar strategies for dealing with dissenters. They include isolation, organized groupthink denigration and ridicule, disemvowelization (that is a PT special technique), summary deletion and, as a last resort of course, lifetime banishment, the ultimate expression of intolerance to ideas not in conformity with the &#8220;standard,&#8221; as if there ever was one. The simple truth is that evolution remains a gigantic mystery for which there is as yet no adequate explanation. To proceed, as Panda&#8217;s Thumb so obviously has, supporting the Darwwinian model with what Pierre Grasse described as &#8220;Olympian assurance&#8221; is no longer acceptable in light of the findings of modern molecular biology. Of course it never was but it is becoming more and more evident that Darwinism in all its trappings was a fatal error in the search for the truth. At its inception it was nothing but the simultaneous vision of a couple of Victorian naturalists who happened to have shared the same reading experience with the works of Thomas Malthus and Charles Lyell. It was the logical perspective of what has been called the &#8220;Age of Enlightenment,&#8221; a new view of the world which denied a God of any sort, past or present, a view which assumed that the material world was separate from a created world and no longer required a Creator in any form. Nothing could be further from reality. Everything we are now learning pleads in favor of a highly predetermined universe, planned, front loaded and now largely if not completely executed. While there is admittedly no evidence for a Creator at present, one must have been involved in determining every subsequent event in the beginning. Of that I remain certain.  That conviction would seem to be an unpardonable sin at Panda&#8217;s Thumb as it was at EvC and &#8220;brainstorms&#8221; the forum of ISCID.</p>
<p>&#8220;Everything is determined&#8230;by forces over which we have no control.&#8221;<br />
Albert Einstein</p>
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		<title>By: John A. Davison</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2005/05/05/censorship-at-pt-i-dont-think-so/comment-page-1/#comment-5758</link>
		<dc:creator>John A. Davison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 15:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=112#comment-5758</guid>
		<description>Wesley, what happemned to my last post? Am I banned here? Isn&#039;t confinement to the latrreen sufficient for you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wesley, what happemned to my last post? Am I banned here? Isn&#8217;t confinement to the latrreen sufficient for you?</p>
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		<title>By: SteveF</title>
		<link>http://austringer.net/wp/index.php/2005/05/05/censorship-at-pt-i-dont-think-so/comment-page-1/#comment-5757</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 13:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://austringer.net/wp/?p=112#comment-5757</guid>
		<description>I think the above comments by DS demonstrate rather well the personality cult that seems to infest ID.  If it isn&#039;t Salvador taking grenades for Dembski, its DS brown-nosing JAD.  The fact that he sounds like a spoilt, spiteful little child is also rather amusing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the above comments by DS demonstrate rather well the personality cult that seems to infest ID.  If it isn&#8217;t Salvador taking grenades for Dembski, its DS brown-nosing JAD.  The fact that he sounds like a spoilt, spiteful little child is also rather amusing.</p>
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